Overall impressions. I am a bit scared to confess I am not finding it an easy read - it makes sense to learn that the author taught philosophy. I consider I am fairly well educated and well read, but it is difficult to get 'into' a book when I keep having to put it down to look words up (so far: incunabulum, syncretism, phenomenology - still not sure what that one actually means as multiple websites are unable to actually explain it - and conatus). It makes me feel stupid! I am sure both characters would despise my lack of intellectualism. And maybe it's a cultural thing, but I am rather put off by people who consider themselves so very Clever. I would like to remind them, particularly Paloma, that intellectualism and philosophy are a real luxury, made possible by a developed society where most of the food gathering and hard labour is done for you either by other people, who are too exhausted to be able to think about thinking, or by machines, who don’t think at all. Marx himself had to borrow a lot of money off his friend Engels. Renee hasn’t mentioned that...
I also looked up ‘The Master has locked his door’ – this is a Bible reference I think, from Luke 13? (I’m sure the people who think you shouldn’t read non-Christian stuff (!) would know this instantly...) Interesting that Renee isn’t going to admit to knowing this one either!
Significance of the Camellias:
I think they are about Noticing – which Paloma is trying to do. We might call this ‘mindfulness’ – really paying attention to something, as Paloma does with the rugby player. Perhaps they also represent the beauty of nature, and how noticing it can bring healing, as the poor addicted lad finds a moment of focus on seeing them.
As an amateur botanist, (and also, I admit, because I want to look Clever for a moment) I will point out that tea – important to both protagonists – is also a camellia; its scientific name is Camellia sinensis. I don’t believe the author doesn’t know this. For Renee, this particular camellia is another way to stop and Notice things.
What does Art represent: I think Renee in particular is doing something rather like the ‘artist’s dates’ in the Artist’s Way when she reads a book or watches a good film or TV programme. They obviously refresh her in some way. Not sure about Paloma. She finds meaning in a picture after she has seen something in real life that looked like it. Maybe you have to experience life a bit more to appreciate seeing it in art?
How do they view Death: Neither character views Death as a particularly terrifying thing, indeed Paloma is keen to embrace it; knowing there is an exit door from the ‘goldfish bowl’ is a comforting possibility for her (but she doesn’t want the suffering kind of death!) I don’t find Paloma’s view disturbing, but understand others might. She also hasn’t seen much death herself. Renee has seen enough of it to accept it as part of life, and seems to be mostly pragmatic about it, though she is affected by it, particularly her husband’s.
I am not sure about your Eternity question, and hadn’t picked up on this as a theme, so clearly need to go back over the chapter!
Thank you as ever, Emma, for your thorough thoughts! That is a magnificent little fact to know about the connection between Camellias and Tea! I feel like the author must have known that, because they seems so thematically linked in the book.
As to allusions and words you feel you're missing— you are a more conscientious reader than I! I tend to either enjoy looking up things I don't know or (more often) just keep reading assuming that I will learn some things by osmosis, which I think works about 30% of the time, which is a pleasing ratio in my mind!
I am loving this book! I have a soft spot for lovable yet slightly seemingly pretentious characters, which I think Renee and Paloma are. I find myself gravitating more towards Paloma—I work with young people so I think some of her immature yet deeply intellectual musings are sympathetic and very interesting to me.
I agree with Emma that the camellias represent what Paloma and Renee are looking for in life, namely a fulfilling mindfulness and purposefulness. I’m interested to see where these characters land at the end of the book, but it seems to me we’re supposed to look at this symbol (in addition to the love for tea) as the longed for humanity in both of these characters.
Art seems to be civilizing to both characters. (I love that Paloma’s preferred Art is manga!) I think it reflects both of their desires and also gives them an image of what life “should” be. Renee “should” be seen and known and Paloma “should” experience truth and depth. All experiences that Art gives us. In some ways it seems like the highest form of humanity for these characters. Not quite God-like, but still the higher aspiration that they both reach for and take comfort in.
I’m realizing that I’m writing about Renee and Paloma as though they are similar characters when they are in fact quite different. Haha. I guess the compare and contrast of these two characters in their prospective inner and external worlds are interesting to me as well!
I also love that Paloma's favourite "Art" is manga :) As someone a great deal of whose PhD dissertation was on the reception of medieval devotional practices in popular art, I love to see a lack of snobbery when it comes to the artworks that can inspire us!
And I like what you say about Paloma— I think the author does such a good job capturing the inner world of an intelligent but immature young person!
I honestly didn’t know what to expect, but am thoroughly enjoying it! Admittedly, I have had to look up a few words. And the commentary on the incorrect use of a comma made me laugh out loud and cringe a little as that has always been a weakness of mine. My only regret is that I’m currently reading a library edition because there is much I want to underline and make notes about. I’d love to have a print made up of the entire passage on the ritual of tea! There are definitely difficult themes represented but I do think the author is tackling them well so far. Excited to read more!
Glad you're enjoying, Lauren! :) ha! I felt the same way about the misplaced commas. What would Renée and Monsieur Ozu think of my poorly transcribed morning pages...!
I'm a little conflicted on this book (at least this first section). On the one hand, I find it very thought provoking and challenging (philosophy is not my greatest strength). On the other hand, I've been out of school for almost a decade and the narrators' intellectual attitudes irk me. I'm a caretaker for a mentally disabled parent and the sections about consciousness (Renee) and suffering (Paloma) were just kind of disheartening.
thank you for picking “The Elegance of the Hedgehog” for summer book club, Joy! I’ve felt like a voracious reader again— I haven’t been able to put the the book down! Not only was it perfect for a post-semester read, it has delighted and spoken to me in a way I’ve really needed during this particular season of my life.
Right, I caught up...
Overall impressions. I am a bit scared to confess I am not finding it an easy read - it makes sense to learn that the author taught philosophy. I consider I am fairly well educated and well read, but it is difficult to get 'into' a book when I keep having to put it down to look words up (so far: incunabulum, syncretism, phenomenology - still not sure what that one actually means as multiple websites are unable to actually explain it - and conatus). It makes me feel stupid! I am sure both characters would despise my lack of intellectualism. And maybe it's a cultural thing, but I am rather put off by people who consider themselves so very Clever. I would like to remind them, particularly Paloma, that intellectualism and philosophy are a real luxury, made possible by a developed society where most of the food gathering and hard labour is done for you either by other people, who are too exhausted to be able to think about thinking, or by machines, who don’t think at all. Marx himself had to borrow a lot of money off his friend Engels. Renee hasn’t mentioned that...
I also looked up ‘The Master has locked his door’ – this is a Bible reference I think, from Luke 13? (I’m sure the people who think you shouldn’t read non-Christian stuff (!) would know this instantly...) Interesting that Renee isn’t going to admit to knowing this one either!
Significance of the Camellias:
I think they are about Noticing – which Paloma is trying to do. We might call this ‘mindfulness’ – really paying attention to something, as Paloma does with the rugby player. Perhaps they also represent the beauty of nature, and how noticing it can bring healing, as the poor addicted lad finds a moment of focus on seeing them.
As an amateur botanist, (and also, I admit, because I want to look Clever for a moment) I will point out that tea – important to both protagonists – is also a camellia; its scientific name is Camellia sinensis. I don’t believe the author doesn’t know this. For Renee, this particular camellia is another way to stop and Notice things.
What does Art represent: I think Renee in particular is doing something rather like the ‘artist’s dates’ in the Artist’s Way when she reads a book or watches a good film or TV programme. They obviously refresh her in some way. Not sure about Paloma. She finds meaning in a picture after she has seen something in real life that looked like it. Maybe you have to experience life a bit more to appreciate seeing it in art?
How do they view Death: Neither character views Death as a particularly terrifying thing, indeed Paloma is keen to embrace it; knowing there is an exit door from the ‘goldfish bowl’ is a comforting possibility for her (but she doesn’t want the suffering kind of death!) I don’t find Paloma’s view disturbing, but understand others might. She also hasn’t seen much death herself. Renee has seen enough of it to accept it as part of life, and seems to be mostly pragmatic about it, though she is affected by it, particularly her husband’s.
I am not sure about your Eternity question, and hadn’t picked up on this as a theme, so clearly need to go back over the chapter!
Thank you as ever, Emma, for your thorough thoughts! That is a magnificent little fact to know about the connection between Camellias and Tea! I feel like the author must have known that, because they seems so thematically linked in the book.
As to allusions and words you feel you're missing— you are a more conscientious reader than I! I tend to either enjoy looking up things I don't know or (more often) just keep reading assuming that I will learn some things by osmosis, which I think works about 30% of the time, which is a pleasing ratio in my mind!
That is so very interesting about the connection between tea and Camellias!
I feel similarly! Philosophy is a bit of a weak subject for me, so I'm not picking up on a lot of references.
I am loving this book! I have a soft spot for lovable yet slightly seemingly pretentious characters, which I think Renee and Paloma are. I find myself gravitating more towards Paloma—I work with young people so I think some of her immature yet deeply intellectual musings are sympathetic and very interesting to me.
I agree with Emma that the camellias represent what Paloma and Renee are looking for in life, namely a fulfilling mindfulness and purposefulness. I’m interested to see where these characters land at the end of the book, but it seems to me we’re supposed to look at this symbol (in addition to the love for tea) as the longed for humanity in both of these characters.
Art seems to be civilizing to both characters. (I love that Paloma’s preferred Art is manga!) I think it reflects both of their desires and also gives them an image of what life “should” be. Renee “should” be seen and known and Paloma “should” experience truth and depth. All experiences that Art gives us. In some ways it seems like the highest form of humanity for these characters. Not quite God-like, but still the higher aspiration that they both reach for and take comfort in.
I’m realizing that I’m writing about Renee and Paloma as though they are similar characters when they are in fact quite different. Haha. I guess the compare and contrast of these two characters in their prospective inner and external worlds are interesting to me as well!
I also love that Paloma's favourite "Art" is manga :) As someone a great deal of whose PhD dissertation was on the reception of medieval devotional practices in popular art, I love to see a lack of snobbery when it comes to the artworks that can inspire us!
And I like what you say about Paloma— I think the author does such a good job capturing the inner world of an intelligent but immature young person!
I honestly didn’t know what to expect, but am thoroughly enjoying it! Admittedly, I have had to look up a few words. And the commentary on the incorrect use of a comma made me laugh out loud and cringe a little as that has always been a weakness of mine. My only regret is that I’m currently reading a library edition because there is much I want to underline and make notes about. I’d love to have a print made up of the entire passage on the ritual of tea! There are definitely difficult themes represented but I do think the author is tackling them well so far. Excited to read more!
Glad you're enjoying, Lauren! :) ha! I felt the same way about the misplaced commas. What would Renée and Monsieur Ozu think of my poorly transcribed morning pages...!
I am so enjoying this book - which for some lucky lucky reason is free on audible
what excellent information!
The audiobook is also included with a premium Spotify subscription!
The audio book is also free via my local library 🤓
I‘m a little behind and just got this wonderful book from my Library. I love this book so far! The writing is fresh, funny, and thoughtful.
So glad to hear you're enjoying it.
I'm a little conflicted on this book (at least this first section). On the one hand, I find it very thought provoking and challenging (philosophy is not my greatest strength). On the other hand, I've been out of school for almost a decade and the narrators' intellectual attitudes irk me. I'm a caretaker for a mentally disabled parent and the sections about consciousness (Renee) and suffering (Paloma) were just kind of disheartening.
thank you for picking “The Elegance of the Hedgehog” for summer book club, Joy! I’ve felt like a voracious reader again— I haven’t been able to put the the book down! Not only was it perfect for a post-semester read, it has delighted and spoken to me in a way I’ve really needed during this particular season of my life.
Could not be happier to hear this! Happy reading!